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Post by Melanie on Jun 14, 2005 12:56:05 GMT
Distinct subspecies of the Grey Wolf described in 1907 by Cabrera.
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Post by Melanie on Jun 14, 2005 13:03:12 GMT
Became extinct around 1930. Species should not be mistaken with the Iberian Wolf which is still exist.
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Post by Melanie on Jun 14, 2005 13:23:26 GMT
Small-sized wolf with a reddish fur.
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Post by another specialist on Jun 14, 2005 16:01:48 GMT
Not recognized by all taxonomists.
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Post by another specialist on Jun 14, 2005 16:04:08 GMT
but this is the same with all Wolf Taxonomy - there are always changes and desagrements about what is a valid subspecies and how many subspecies there are in total. It be an on going thing.
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Post by Peter on Oct 13, 2005 9:58:44 GMT
I wanted to post a message that was posted in a thread on wolf subspecies here too as it is about this subspecies and has some new information: Actually, Canis lupus deitanus is a nomen dubium. This subspecies was described in 1907 by Ángel Cabrera, a spanish naturalist, after captive wolves in Murcia. Since then, nobody had spoken about these wolves, possibly bizarre iberian wolves (Canis lupus signatus due to live in captivity. But, on the other hand, iberian wolf not live in Murcia...
Regards! Source thread: extinctanimals.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=carnivora&action=display&thread=1115308962.
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Post by another specialist on Oct 20, 2005 0:08:38 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Oct 20, 2005 0:09:42 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Oct 20, 2005 0:10:21 GMT
From what i've found out it's a valid subspecies
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Post by Peter on Oct 20, 2005 10:25:54 GMT
But keep in mind that around the time it was described it was fashionable to name new subspecies. As it is named from captive wolves, it might in fact just have been a variety, inbred or other abnormality due to captivity.
Is Murcia isolated from the rest of the Iberian peninsula? And have Iberian Wolves never lived there? If so, the Spanish Wolf could be a seperate valid subspecies, otherwise not I think.
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Post by Peter on Oct 20, 2005 10:49:35 GMT
Source: es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobo. Translation from Spanish Wikipedia:Wolf of eastern Spain (C. l. deitanus) : Al the same as the Iberian wolf, was named by Cabrera in 1907, but in this case always there has been many doubts of their authenticity, therefore was described from various animals that were captives in Murcia and themselves they have not been observed in wild state. The wolves of eastern Spain were enough smaller than the Iberian, of short and reddish hair. Probably the copies of Bad-tempered fuesen only aberrant individuals of Iberian wolf. In any case, itself does not have news of them from principles of the 20th century. It is also not named on the English wikipedia!
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Post by Peter on Oct 20, 2005 10:59:56 GMT
From: www.iberianature.com/material/wolf.html. Distribution, habitat and diet of wolves in Spain The Iberian wolf is considered by some specialists as a sub-species ( Canis lupus signatus) of Canis lupus, though this is rejected by many in the field. It is said to be distinguished by the black marks along its tail, back, jowls and front legs, and so sigantus meaning marked. More than 50 % are found in Northern Castilla y León (1000-1.500 individuals), and less than 35% in Galicia (500-700), with the densest population in North-eastern Zamora (5-7 wolves/100km2). Though wolves were once present throughout the Peninsula, they are now confined to the North-east (Asturias, Leon, Northern Castilla, Galicia), and a few residual populations in the Sierra Morena (Jaén and Cuenca). Recently, however they have managed to cross back over the modern-day barrier of the river Duero and begun to spread southwards and eastwards: two packs have been detected around Guadalajara and have started to move into Teruel in southern Aragon, much to the amazement and trepidation (and at first disbelief) of the locals. There are thought to be some 300 breeding pairs, giving a total number of around 1,500 at the start of spring and around 2,000 by mid autumn. The wolf in Spain is no longer considered endangered, merely vulnerable, though the Sierra Morena and Extremaduran populations are classified as critically endangered, and the latter is almost certainly extinct. Wolves in the Sierra Morena inhabit private game estates where they are illegally persecuted as they come into conflict with the hunting practices of the rich. Across the border in Portugal, there are reckoned to be between 46 and 62 packs. The ideal habitat for wolves in Spain encompasses a low human population density (less than 10 inhabitants/km2), protective cover against man, and a high density of prey species such as roe deer and boar, though given the famed adaptability of the wolf to different environs, probably the single most important factor is the native human population's tolerance of the species in a given area. Spanish wolf diet varies enormously depending on the area. While Galician wolves partly feed off the remains of chicken and pig farms, Cantabrian wolves take red and roe deer and wild boar, and almost 50% of the diet of the wolves in the Castilian cereal belt is thought to be rabbits. However, their biggest source of nutrition is livestock, most of which was taken as carrion, though with the recent EU's banning of leaving dead animals in the field because of fear of mad cow's disease, wolves are killing more living sheep and cows. This has become increasingly a source of friction. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Even the Iberian wolf is maybe not even a valid subspecies. And there is much variety in diet, so maybe also in appearance. Also many North American subspecies (which looked differently) belong now to the same subspecies. Many previous recognised subspecies are not valid anymore. Most likely the same with the Spanish Wolf.
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Post by another specialist on Oct 20, 2005 12:29:01 GMT
Thanks for the info very interesting. Just like all the North American Wolf subspecies how many subspecies, what is a valid species or subspecies etc etc is alway open to debate. Will it ever be cleared up ? is it that easy to sort out? I say no it ain't
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Post by Peter on Oct 20, 2005 12:32:10 GMT
No until there is no genetic proof, different opinions will remain!
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Post by another specialist on Oct 20, 2005 13:53:53 GMT
Yes i agree - genetic proof like DNA etc is the only way to go
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Post by Bucardo on Oct 23, 2005 0:24:44 GMT
Is Murcia isolated from the rest of the Iberian peninsula? And have Iberian Wolves never lived there? If so, the Spanish Wolf could be a seperate valid subspecies, otherwise not I think. Untill 20th century wolves were distributed across the major part of Spain, and the murcian population were connected with other. (from signatus.org/signatus.org/img/distribucion.jpg)Moreover, some iberian wolves have a partial reddish fur, like this: Given that SE Spain is drier and had less forests, is possible that the wolves of this regions were smaller (because their prey were little mammals) and totally reddish (for camouflage?). Where they a separate subspecies? I don't know. Yes, I agree that genetic proofs is the only way to determine the identity of this wolf.
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Post by another specialist on Oct 23, 2005 8:25:27 GMT
Thanks for the information Bucardo very interesting. But we all agree the only way to go is genetic DNA testing
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Post by another specialist on Oct 23, 2005 8:32:30 GMT
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Post by Peter on Oct 25, 2005 11:54:01 GMT
Genetic testing would give a certain answer. True, but if they were not isolated, they could interbreed this mix genetics and therefor not have been evolved into different subspecies.
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Post by another specialist on Oct 25, 2005 18:24:29 GMT
Genetic testing would give a certain answer. True, but if they were not isolated, they could interbreed this mix genetics and therefor not have been evolved into different subspecies. Yes, true Peter
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