Sarcidiornis mauritania (Mascarene Swan)

[Melanie]

last observed by P. Dubois ca. 1670 on Reunion Island, and by J. Marshall ca. 1668 on Mauritius

herbivore endemic to Mascarene Islands

fossil specimens in London

disappeared after introduction of rats, cats, and pigs; declined with deforestation and probably also hunted.

[Deleted]

Hi !

This name is invalid or an error, the valid name is Alopochen mauritianus for the mauritian shelduck and Alopochen kervazoi for the shelduck from Reunion.

[another specialist]

noisi said:

Hi !

This name is invalid or an error, the valid name is Alopochen mauritianus for the mauritian shelduck and Alopochen kervazoi for the shelduck from Reunion.

different birds their ducks this thread is on the swan species of this area

[another specialist]

the info supplied by melanie can be found here

www.encyclopedia.mu/Nature/Fauna/Birds/Extinct/MascareneSwan.htm

[Deleted]

Hi !

Sarcidiornis is a genus of shelgeese (South American Comb Duck) and not a swan, Sarcidirnis mauritiana is an synonym for Alopochen mauritianus.

Bye Alex

[another specialist]

Alopochen mauritianus
www.iucnredlist.org/search/details.php?species=902

thank you for clarification noisi

[Melanie]

I think there is no clarification.

Mauritian Shelduck Alopochen mauritianus was endemic to Mauritius. Although the only specimens of the species are two carpometacarpii, it is known from numerous travelers' reports. In 1681, it was noted to be plentiful "in the woods or dry ponds", but it was presumably heavily hunted because it was described as "not large, but fat and good". By 1693, the species was rare and, by 1698, it was extinct.

That is different to the extinction dates of the Mascarene swan.

[another specialist]

Sarcidiornis mauritania is valid i believe as Extinct Birds the newest volume still uses it but it may be a goose not a swan?

[Deleted]

Hi !

Believe me or not, these two birds Sarcidiornis mauritianus and Alopochen mauritianus are exactly the same.

And when You search for Sarcidiornis mauritianus in the internet You find only one site, this:

www.birds.mu/Extinct/MascareneSwan.htm

And on the other hand Sarcidiornis is also wrong it must be Sarkidiornis. And this is the name for the Comb Duck.

There is no swan in Africa, no swan in Madagascar and there was also never a swan on Mauritius. Also once was Sarcidiornis kervazoi a synonym for Alopochen kervazoi.

Bye Alex

[sebbe67]

soure for melanies first entry

www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/heywood/geog358/extinctb/MascSwan.htm

[Carlos]

With most humble respect to all opinions , after checking the sources refered to by sebbe67, I think that there are no swans involved in this mess. I' ve got a copy of both books and this is what they say:

Fuller, E. (1987): Extinct birds. p. 48:

"Geese seen by seventeenth-century travelers in Réunion and Mauritius may correspond to bones subsequently found in Mauritius and described under the name of Sarcidiornis mauritana".

and

Greenway, J.C. (1958): Extinct and vanishing birds of the world. p. 114:

"Sarcidiornis mauritianus Newton and Gadow, Trans. Zool. Zool. London, 13, 1893, p. 290.

Range: Known only from bones found on Mauritius and perhaps a traveler's account of Réunion.
Metacarpal and fragment of pelvis are in Cambridge University.
Père Dubois saw geese on Réunion about 1670, which he said were smaller than European geese. They had red feet and bills, he said. Hachisuka (1953) qotes J. Marshall ("Memorandum concerning India," 1668), who noticed geese on Mauritius with wings black at the tip and with the basal half black."

Those descriptions of the only known observers of the bird(s) alive in the XVII^th century, hardy fit with any swan known to date (except perhaps Coscoroba, but why describe a Coscoroba Swan-like bird as a goose smaller than European geese?) but it strongly recall the size, bill and feet colour as well as the wing pattern of several tadornini species.

So I agree with noisi about Sarcidiornis beeing in fact Alopochen, and unless aditional proofs are shown of the existence of this pretended mascarene swan, there are only evdences of one or may be two species of tadornini (shelducks), probably an Alopochen as the most likely source of nearest tadornini in Africa

[Melanie]

Thanks for explanation. That is understandable.

[another specialist]

thanks m8 for explanation - of great interest

[Carlos]

My pleasure

[another specialist]

last observed by P. Dubois ca. 1670 on Reunion Island, and by J. Marshall ca. 1668 on Mauritius

herbivore endemic to Mascarene Islands

fossil specimens in London

disappeared after introduction of rats, cats, and pigs; declined with deforestation and probably also hunted.

www.encyclopedia.mu/Nature/Fauna/Birds/Extinct/MascareneSwan.htm

[Carlos]

This page on Sarcidiornis mauritiana in the Enciclpaedia Mauritiana site is simply wrong, they refer to the same two authors, Fuller and Greenway, and as I have already shown in my post they don't mention any swan at all, but refer to "geese" observed and recorded by those two XVII^th century travellers, (Père Dubois in Reunion about 1670, and Marshall -via Hachisuka 1953- in Mauritius in 1668).

They don't mention any swan at all. Somebody, somewhere and sometime simply made a misinterpretation (not to say a mistake) of the literal words of the original sources and then the mistake kept being copied.

[another specialist]

anotherspecialist said:

last observed by P. Dubois ca. 1670 on Reunion Island, and by J. Marshall ca. 1668 on Mauritius

herbivore endemic to Mascarene Islands

fossil specimens in London

disappeared after introduction of rats, cats, and pigs; declined with deforestation and probably also hunted.

www.encyclopedia.mu/Nature/Fauna/Birds/Extinct/MascareneSwan.htm

Yes, i agree Carlos but the bit of info copied and pasted from site is correct just the naming of species is wrong

[Carlos]

anotherspecialist said:

the bit of info copied and pasted from site is correct just the naming of species is wrong

The correct name of a species is the first thing to frame that species status. Otherwise it would be (and it is) a mistake and an obvious misunderstanding that keep the mess going on.

The reality here is that Sarcidiornis mauritiana is a synonym of Alopochen mauritianus and that there is only one species involved.

[Carlos]

This is the thread of Alopochen mauritianus in this board:
extinctanimals.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=waterfowl&action=display&thread=1116262803

[slothlemur]

Are they are any pictures of this bird in the web??I would love to see them. Do we have already a topic about the Malteser Giant Swan ( Malta Riesen Schwan)