|
Post by another specialist on May 27, 2005 16:55:06 GMT
I agree with lenny - a subspecies is valid until proven not. If it can't be proven which would be very difficult with this subspecies it should be left as it is. Why change it for staters?
no point......
|
|
|
Post by Melanie on May 27, 2005 16:55:49 GMT
David Day has mentioned two subspecies from Mexico. P. o. veracrucensis and P. o. hernandesi. Both of them should be very rare. But which subspecies was recently observed in Arizona? That is the question. Well, and i don't believe that the individuals which can be seen on the latest photographes are escaped from captivity.
|
|
|
Post by Peter on May 27, 2005 16:59:34 GMT
It is indeed dangerous when it is not for 100% sure! Subspecies can than indeed lose protection! And reintroduction can cause possible hybrids. I have to read the article again, but I thought the one I've read was not a genetic research, so what is than "prove". I shall see if I can find it here on this computer. Otherwise I have to look in my archive at home (I'm not home at the moment). I agree to see a subspecies as valid until proven otherwise!
|
|
|
Post by Melanie on May 27, 2005 17:01:36 GMT
|
|
|
Post by another specialist on May 27, 2005 18:54:58 GMT
So there is a possibility of odd individual coming across the border from Mexico or a escapee exotic pets and this is known not just in the USA but even the UK. This can't be said it's not possible - why not? plenty of sightings of non native cats being spotted in the UK and USA.
|
|
|
Post by lenny1 on Dec 25, 2005 18:43:56 GMT
David Day has mentioned two subspecies from Mexico. P. o. veracrucensis and P. o. hernandesi. Both of them should be very rare. But which subspecies was recently observed in Arizona? That is the question. Well, and i don't believe that the individuals which can be seen on the latest photographes are escaped from captivity. Well, none of these is valid anylonger, the USA population (if there even is any left) is just a part of a subspecies which so far is beleived to range from Guatemala? Honduras? up to North Mexico, possibly south USA?. But as David Days book is a bit out of date today, by that time the name would have been Panthera onca veraecrucis, East Mexican Jaguar.
|
|
|
Post by another specialist on Dec 25, 2005 18:53:28 GMT
has there been any scientific testing ie DNA testing to say its not a valid subspecies?
|
|
|
Post by lenny1 on Dec 25, 2005 19:40:21 GMT
On Panthera onca veraecrucis?
By the time David Day wrote (1980s) his book, three subspecies of Jaguar was said to solely inhabit the northern regions of Mexico, and its quite easy to see even if they lived in different regions, that its genetic impossible, as on most well known carnivores studies has of course been made to established that, in the 1980s few actually believed that three subspecies could live in such a limited area but the info was to poor and old, a major survey in Mexico was done in 1991-1992? perhaps 1993 when most Mexican populations was surveyed through and a few hundred animals was compeered.
|
|
|
Post by another specialist on Dec 26, 2005 10:34:52 GMT
But was there any scientific testing done like DNA? As this subspecies is dated as extinct 1905 in David Day book so surveys done recently on existing populations would not include this supposed subspecies.
|
|
peej2
Full Member
Posts: 118
|
Post by peej2 on Mar 5, 2006 19:21:55 GMT
Are there any historical photos or museum specimens of this jaguar subspecies?
|
|
|
Post by another specialist on Mar 5, 2006 22:11:53 GMT
That i know of there is none
|
|
peej2
Full Member
Posts: 118
|
Post by peej2 on Mar 7, 2006 15:18:57 GMT
But are there any images of an arizona jaguar museum or otherwise. A real clear photograph would be nice because I've never actually seen one. Although I'm sure it doesn't really look that different from other jaguars.
|
|
|
Post by another specialist on Mar 8, 2006 0:05:22 GMT
But are there any images of an arizona jaguar museum or otherwise. A real clear photograph would be nice because I've never actually seen one. Although I'm sure it doesn't really look that different from other jaguars. if you do a google image search for Arizoma jaguar you will find photos of the recent sightings of jaguars in Arizona this are either escaped exotic pets or they have come across from the Mexican border. As i know of there is no museum specimens labelled Arizona leopard. If there was then the problem of it being valid or not could be sorted out scientifically with DNA and other testing.
|
|
peej2
Full Member
Posts: 118
|
Post by peej2 on Mar 8, 2006 0:09:01 GMT
Ahhh...yes that is true enough. It would be quite difficult to distiguish it as a subspecies without actually DNA or data behind the specimens past.
|
|
|
Post by another specialist on Mar 8, 2006 0:12:02 GMT
yes it would mate - thats why it's still abit of a mystery which can't really be solved without specimens
|
|
|
Post by Peter on Mar 9, 2006 9:58:15 GMT
The following article: "Larson, S.E. 1997. Taxonomic Re-Evaluation of the Jaguar. Zoo Biology 16:107-120", says the following (at that time still 8 subspecies were recognised): Panthera onca arizonensis [Goldman, 1932] found from eastern Arizona north to the grand canyon and south to New Mexico and northeastern Sonora. The original description of this subspecies was based on a few skulls described as the largest of the northern jaguars with a skull that has flatter, more depressed nasals than other jaguar populations. Conclusions: 1. The results of discriminant analysis indicate a low percentage of individuals classifying to their assigned taxa, intermixing of individuals from several different taxa, and greater within-group variation than between-group variation resulting in relatively low differences between groups. Local jaguar populations tend to be highly variable with many groups thoughout the species range showing similar amounts of variation. 2. There is evidence of clinal variation, with the greatest differences between two jaguar groups being found between an extreme northern population and an extreme southern population. Discrimination of northern and southern groups revealed some separation between poles of the cline, iwth most intermixing of individuals occurring at the center of the distribution. 3.Taxonomic difference between jaguar populations are not significant, give skull morphology variables, discriminant analusis, and the available specimens in U.S. museums. 4. Based on the results of this analysis, captive jaguar populations should be managed as a single taxon (one species without subspecies) until data are available to support significant diffferences between jaguar populations. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The four specimens of the Arizona jaguar are in The Unites States National Museum (USNM). Specimens (collection number and locality): 225613, Helveta, Arizona 231961, Greaterville, Arizona 247337, Nogales, Arizona 289015, Fort Apache Indian Reservation, Arizona ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The original description of the Arizona jaguar is in: Goldman, E.A. 1932. The jaguars of North America. Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington 45:143-146. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from GUIDELINES FOR CAPTIVE MANAGEMENT OF JAGUARS: An analysis, published in 2001, of mtDNA differences and microsatellite location in somatic DNA reveals very weak phylogeographic differentiation. It indicates that jaguars from the southern part of the range are significantly different from those in the northern part of the range. A much less marked difference appears between populations living Central America and those from northern South America. The Amazon River and the former Darien Straits, between what is now Panama and Colombia, were posed as geographic isolators. A comparison with similar studies in other species suggested that as a species, jaguars might be in an expansion and rapid growth phase of habitat exploitation. Under such conditions, along with the counter-pressures of habitat fragmentation and persecution, broad genetic diversity without deep geographic differentiation could be expected. While the paper recommends avoiding across-range management of the species in the wild, it also suggests the need for a revision of its taxonomy at the subspecies level (Eizirik, et al., 2001). The article: "Eizirik, Eduardo, Jae-Heup Kim, Marilyn Menotti-Raymond, Peter G. Crawshaw Jr., Stephen J. O’Brien, and Warren E. Johnson. 2001. Phylogeography, Population History and Conservation of Jaguars (Panthera onca, Mammalia, Felidae). Mol. Ecol. 10:65-79. (Online pdf: www.procarnivoros.org.br/pdfs/oncaMolEcol.pdf.) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Online pdf of GUIDELINES FOR CAPTIVE MANAGEMENT OF JAGUARS of the Jaguar Species Survival Plan: www.jaguarssp.org/Animal%20Mgmt/JAGUAR%20HUSBANDRY%20MANUAL.pdf.
|
|
|
Post by another specialist on Mar 9, 2006 19:27:59 GMT
Thanks for the great info Peter now i know that some museum specimens exist and where they are.
|
|
|
Post by another specialist on Mar 9, 2006 19:30:11 GMT
Jaguar Pantera onca arizonensis The jaguar (Panthera onca) is the largest cat native to the Western Hemisphere. It is characterized by yellowish-brown fur with dark rosette markings. The lower region of the tail is ringed in black and the tips of the ears have black edges. Jaguars are powerfully built, with large heads and strong limbs. The weight of an adult male averages around 120200 pounds, while the females weigh slightly less. Habitat: The jaguar's habitat varies from wet lowland habitats on its center range to arid habitats along its northern range. Range: The jaguar can be a far ranging animal, traveling distances up to 500 miles. They may become sedentary depending on availability of food. The jaguar is territorial and marks its boundaries with scents. The home range of the jaguar is between 10 and 40 square kilometers.1 In North America, the historic range of the jaguar included Arizona up to the Grand Canyon and the mountains south of it, southwest New Mexico, and southeast California. The current range is considered by many to include Mexico, Central America, and as far south as Argentina in South America.2 Reproduction: Jaguars breed year round with about a 100-day gestation period. A litter of one to four cubs is usually produced, with the average being two cubs. Cubs remain with their mother for two years. A female jaguar matures at three years, a male at four years of age. Diet: The jaguar's diet includes up to eighty-five species. Some prey species include the javelina, deer, turtle, birds, fish, and livestock. On the U.S. and Mexico borderlands, javelina and deer are presumed to be the jaguar's primary food source. Status: On July 22, 1997, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service granted endangered status to the jaguar throughout its range under the Endangered Species Act of 1973. The jaguar is now listed endangered in the United States, Mexico, and Central and South America. In the United States, illegal shooting is the greatest threat to the jaguar.2 Jaguars and Pima County: In Arizona, there have been at least 64 jaguars killed since 1900. Within the past twenty years, several confirmed sightings have occurred in Pima County. In 1988, a jaguar was observed in Altar Valley and in the Baboquivari Mountains March of 1996, a jaguar was spotted and confirmed with video and photographs. In 2001, a young male jaguar was documented by a motion activated camera south of Tucson, near the Mexican border. Unconfirmed sightings have been reported in the Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge. Southeastern Pima County has been included as potential habitat for the jaguar (as designated by the Jaguar Conservation Committee).3 Possible habitat sites have been identified as south of I-10, and includes mountain ranges in southeast Arizona and as far west as the Baboquivari Mountains. The Rincon Mountains have also been included for several reasons: 1) the historic presence of jaguars, 2) the funnel effect created by the Rincons, Santa Rita, and Empire mountains, 3) the connecting corridor to the Empire Mountains (currently used by other big predators).4 In order to thrive or even persist in Arizona, the jaguar needs to be protected from death by shooting or traps. An adequate food base and movement corridors connected to source populations in Mexico are needed. References 1. www.wwfcanada.org/facts/jaguar.htm2. Doddridge, Joseph. "Endangered and Threatened Wildlife and Plants; Final Rule to Extend Endangered Status for the Jaguar in the United States." Federal Register. July 22, 1997. Vol 62, No. 140. pp 9147-39157. 3. Summary notes on Jaguar Habitat Committee Meeting. June 29, 1998. 4. Jaguar Conservation Team Final Summary Notes. July 30, 1998. 5. www.gf.state.az.us/frames/fishwild/jaguar.htmwww.co.pima.az.us/cmo/sdcp/sdcp2/fsheets/jaguar.html
|
|
|
Post by sebbe67 on Mar 14, 2006 16:36:38 GMT
Source: The doomsday book
|
|
|
Post by another specialist on Mar 14, 2006 16:53:58 GMT
thanks sebbe67 for uploading that pic
|
|