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Post by wilkenna on Dec 13, 2009 3:17:25 GMT
It appears there may be hope of restoring the extinct White Gallinule from Lord Howe Island which disappeared early in the 19th century. A colony of white moorhens has appeared in England which might offer hope of developing a self sustaining breeding group and perhaps reintroducing them to Lord Howe now that the majority of predators have been controlled and the birdlife is bouncing back. Check out the pics at www.wildlifeextra.com and see what you think - I hope someone can take up the challenge and restore this bird to its rightful place. Attachments:
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Post by Melanie on Dec 13, 2009 9:01:28 GMT
A leucistic moorhen is not the same as the White Gallinule. So the White Gallinule is stil extinct.
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Post by another specialist on Dec 13, 2009 21:21:06 GMT
Totally different bird
so no chance
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Post by wilkenna on Dec 14, 2009 6:33:09 GMT
Melanie, your lack of enthusiasm and poor scientific common sense astounds me. So what do you think of allowing Lonesome George to reproduce with a similar subspecies from another island? The White Gallinule and the Eurasian purple phase are both Porphyrio sp, one was simply a white variant and this is the only chance to restore it. If everyone threw in the towel like the moderators on this site we might as well give up on biodiversity and just watch while species disappear for good. Do us all a favour and some homework before you dismiss other peoples' ideas.
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Post by Melanie on Dec 14, 2009 9:23:13 GMT
Oh, I've done my homework:
The White Gallinule is a distinct species because it was isolated on Lord Howe Island (e.g. it is known from subfossil bones). The White Gallinule had more robust legs than the Purple Woodhen so it was much more a runner than a flyer (in contrast to the Purple Woodhen which is a good flyer). In your argument you follow Brad Livezey's theory that the White Gallinule is conspecific with the Purple Woodhen but our knowledge of this bird is so poorly known that most current authors (e.g. Barry Taylor or Christides & Boles) reject Livezeys theory as well as BirdLife International.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 9:58:45 GMT
@ wilkenna What You are suggesting would be a replacement, but not a reanimation of an extinct species. And this: Melanie, your poor scientific common sense astounds me. rather applies to someone else .... Because this: and perhaps reintroducing them to Lord Howe ... well, why reintroducing ? It never lived there !!! Don't You know that especially the introductions of new species into other habitats have caused the worst extinctions ? Sorry for saying this, but such suggestions show a rather poor knowledge of nature and extinction events.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 10:14:07 GMT
Oh, and by the way .... The gap, that the extirpation of Porphyrio albus has left behind is filled by Porphyrio melanotus, which managed to find its way to Lord Howe Island from Australia several years ago, all alone and without any aid ....
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Post by Peter on Dec 16, 2009 14:04:14 GMT
Melanie, your lack of enthusiasm and poor scientific common sense astounds me. So what do you think of allowing Lonesome George to reproduce with a similar subspecies from another island? The White Gallinule and the Eurasian purple phase are both Porphyrio sp, one was simply a white variant and this is the only chance to restore it. If everyone threw in the towel like the moderators on this site we might as well give up on biodiversity and just watch while species disappear for good. Do us all a favour and some homework before you dismiss other peoples' ideas. Wilkenna, do you have scientific information that they belong to the same species? Only than a reintoduction is possible. As far as I know the White Swamphen belongs to the species Porpyrio albus and the Purple Swamphen to the species Porphyrio porphyrio. Than it would be same as using tigers to replace the Barbary lion, for example. That is why we say it is not possible, not the same bird. If they are now seen as belonging to the same species an reintroduction would be possible, but as the Australian subspecies already lives there now you would end up with crossbreeds of two different subspecies of the Purple Swamphen. That is not something I support. Your example of Lonesome George. There it is losing Lonesome George's subspecies or trying to save at least some of its genetics in crossbreeds/hybrids. I choose for the last option. So if you can provide us with info that we don't seem to have about its taxonomy. Than please provide us with that. New info is always welcome. Peter
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2009 15:31:08 GMT
Well, those leucistic Moorhens do not even belong to the same genus, they are nothing but leucistic Common Moorhens ( Gallinula chloropus). see here: www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/leucistic-moorhen815.html#crSo, this would be like replacing the Barbary Lion with a Lynx or a Wild Cat or something .... ********* And, what we should not forget, the white Porphyrio albus itself was also nothing but a leucistic morph of the otherwise typical blue Porphyrio albus. It is well know from early accounts that the birds on Lord Howe Island were blue, blue and white or pure white.
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Post by Peter on Dec 16, 2009 22:00:04 GMT
You're right Noisi! They are indeed Common Moorhens, thus indeed a completely different species. They are not belonging to the Purple Swamphen (not the Mediterranean Purple Swamphen, Porphyrio porphyrio porphyrio, which is the only subspecies occuring in Europe). The White Swamphen's niche is now taken over by the Australasian Purple Swamphen (Porphyrio porphyrio melanotus or Porphyrio melanotus, depending on authority as there is not a complete consensus about Porphyrio taxonomy). Therefor introducing the alien white-coloured Eurasian Common Moorhen (Gallinula chloropus chloropus) would not be a good idea. Wilkenna, do you agree now? Or do you still have another opinion? Let us know!
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