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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2006 17:18:01 GMT
Hi ! Cryptoprocta spelea was a giant fossa that lived in Madagascar, the date of its extinction fells within the extinction dates of all other extinct mammals in Madagascar. from my site: " The Fossa (Cryptoprocta ferox) is the largest carnivorous mammal species in Madagascar. Her typically prey are almost all kind of Lemures and nearly all other still living native animals.
In some places in Madagascar the native people speak of two different species of Fossa, the fosa mena, or Red Fossa and the fosa mainty, or Black Fossa. The Red Fossa is the well known Fossa, but the Black Fossa is said to be much larger than the 'normal' Fossa.
The Giant Fossa was indeed about a third larger than the still living species and could have reached a bit more than 2 m in length."And here is an interesting pdf for You : www.mnhn.fr/museum/front/medias/publication/1334_z04n1a9.pdf#search=%22Cryptoprocta-spelea%22
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Post by sebbe67 on Aug 19, 2006 17:39:09 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Aug 19, 2006 19:45:47 GMT
ABSTRACT Grandidier (1902) described a large form of Cryptoprocta ferox Bennett, 1833, a genus of Carnivora endemic to Madagascar, from subfossil material dating from the presumed Holocene that he referred to the variety spelea. Subsequently there has been varying opinion on the validity of this taxon. In this paper 159 subfossil and 32 modern osteological specimens of Cryptoprocta are examined and analyzed to determine if indeed two separate forms can be morphologically distinguished within the sample. On the basis of these tests we conclude that C. spelea Grandidier, 1902 is a valid species that existed on the island in the recent geological past. It was presumably a formidable predator that may well have feed on a variety of large lemur species that are now extinct.
The modern native Carnivora fauna of Madagascar is composed of eight species, the largest of which is Cryptoprocta ferox Bennett, 1833. This animal shows sexual dimorphism in body mass with adult males reaching between 6.2-8.6 kg and adult females between 5.5-6.7 kg; average body mass across adults is 6.8 kg (Hawkins 1998, 2003). C. ferox occurs in a variety of natural and human modified habitats. Its diet is largely composed of vertebrates, particularly mammals, although a wide assortment of other items are taken (Albignac 1973; Rasolonandrasana 1994; Rasoloarison et al. 1995; Goodman et al. 1997; Rasamison 1997; Goodman 2003). It is a very proficient hunter, being to pursue prey both on the ground and in trees (Laborde 1986). The systematic position of Cryptoprocta Bennett, 1833 (e.g., Veron & Catzeflis 1993; Veron 1995) and Malagasy Carnivora in general have been the subject of numerous studies that have reached very different conclusions about the familial and interfamilial relationships of these animals. However, recent molecular studies indicate that all native Malagasy Carnivora form a monophyletic group (Yoder et al. 2003).
Bones referable to the genus Cryptoprocta have been recovered from a wide variety of Holocene paleontological sites on Madagascar, particularly in the west and extreme south; none of these specimens show signs of mineralization and are hence referred to as “subfossils”. Grandidier (1902, 1905) studied osteological material of Cryptoprocta from the subfossil sites of Ambolisatra (23°03’S, 43°24’E) to the north of Toliara in the southwest and the cave of Andrahomana (25°50’S, 46°40’E) to the west of Tolagnaro in the extreme southeast and concluded that the material represented a form larger that extant C. ferox and he proposed to name it as a distinct “variété” C. ferox var. spelea. He did not designate a holotype specimen. Petit (1935) subsequently concluded that specimens housed in the Muséum national d’Histoire naturelle, Paris, and presumably part of the Grandidier collection, and redescribed the form spelea as a distinct species. This latter author mentioned no holotype. Lamberton (1939) conducted a detailed osteological and morphometric analysis of Cryptoprocta bones collected at a variety of paleontological sites on the island, all presumably dating from the Holocene. He concluded that indeed subfos- sil Cryptoprocta were for the most part larger than the living species of this genus and concurred with Petit (1935) in considering Grandidier’s form spelea to be a full species. Material referred to C. spelea by Lamberton was excavated from the sites of Beavoha (25°04’S, 44°19’E), grotte d’Ankazoabo (north of Itampolo), Beloha (25°10’S, 45°03’E), Belo-sur-Mer (20°44’S, 44°00’E), Bemafandry (25°07’S, 44°16’E), and Tsiandroina (24°59’S, 44°07’E). Lamberton also noted that at some sites certain subfossils were closer in measurements to extant C. ferox than the extinct C. spelea, particularly material from Antsirabe, Beloha, and Beavoha – indicating the possibility that at some sites the two species lived in temporal sympatry. However, given the lack of stratigraphic control associated with the material studied by Lamberton and that no corroborative radiocarbon dates are available, it cannot be substantiated if the two species actually lived at the same time and in the same area. The work on Malagasy subfossils conducted by Lamberton has been of paramount importance in subsequent work in Quaternary paleontology (e.g., Godfrey & Jungers 2003). However, one of the weak points of his monograph on Cryptoprocta was the lack of modern comparative material to assess intraspecific variation in C. ferox. On the basis of comparisons he made, it appears that a maximum of three skeletons of recent C. ferox were available to him. Given the range of sexual dimorphism in this species (Hawkins 1998) and the possibility of geographic variation associated with the island’s dramatic bioclimatic zonation (Ljungquist 1930), this number of specimens was insufficient to capture the possible range of variation in this species. Subsequently certain authors have considered C. spelea to be a synonym of C. ferox (Savage 1978; Köhncke & Leonhardt 1986). Finally, amongst the subfossils studied by Lamberton was a mandible from Tsiandroina that had a form distinctly different from other species of Cryptoprocta, which he named as a distinct species, C. antamba. The name antamba was derived from a reputed animal living in southern Madagascar and described by Flacourt in 1658 (reprinted edition 1995: 221): « C’est une bête grande comme un grand chien qui la tête ronde et au rapport des Nègres, elle a la ressemblance d’un léopard, elle dévore les hommes et les veaux. Elle est rare et ne demeure que dans les lieux des montagnes les moins fréquentés. » Since Lamberton’s study of Cryptoprocta more modern and subfossil osteological specimens have become available. The purpose of this paper is to reevaluate these subfossil specimens and specifically to assess morphological variation in extant C. ferox, then to compare this range of variation to subfossil material, in order to examine if at last some of these bones can be separated from extant members of this genus.
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Post by another specialist on Aug 19, 2006 19:54:44 GMT
TAXONOMIC CONCLUSIONS
On the basis of the analyses presented herein we consider that there is evidence to recognize a larger species of subfossil Cryptoprocta that can be separated from extant C. ferox. No type material associated with the name spelea was designated by Grandidier (1902), and to our knowledge any other researcher addressing Cryptoprocta taxonomy has allocated the type material (Grandidier 1905; Petit 1935). Further, in the collections of the MNHN examined no type material was found. In the interest of taxonomic stability we prefer to maintain the name C. spelea for this larger form and designate a neotype.
NEOTYPE
We have not located the subfossil material from Andrahomana that was originally associated with the name spelea. One of the specimens of C. spelea illustrated in Lamberton’s (1939) monograph was a skull and mandible collected in the grotte d’Ankazoabo (his plate I), that has a distinctive anomaly to the lower right tooth row of the mandible. This specimen was subsequently cataloged as MNHN CG 1977.755 and we designate it as the neotype of C. spelea. Although this specimen is not from the same subfossil deposits associated with the original utilization of the name spelea, it is in an excellent state of preservation and serves the purpose of characterizing this species. Lamberton (1939) also named the species Cryptoprocta antamba based on an oddly shaped mandible found at Tsiandroina. We have not relocated this specimen in any museum collection, but it may be a slightly teratological individual of C. spelea.
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Post by another specialist on Aug 19, 2006 19:57:23 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Aug 19, 2006 19:59:41 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Aug 19, 2006 20:01:51 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Aug 19, 2006 20:02:38 GMT
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Post by sordes on Nov 15, 2006 12:37:21 GMT
Strange that some sources quote a much larger size for this species, about as big as a leopard or larger, but the fossils show undoubtly that is was only about as big as an ozelot.
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Post by another specialist on Nov 15, 2006 17:33:53 GMT
that is a big problem as generally they are all estimates really so you get a vast variations from all sources
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Post by sordes on Nov 17, 2006 8:14:29 GMT
Yes, but by comparing the skulls there is no doubt that there is no really big difference, but a nearly lioness-size if even mentioned in "The Future Eaters"...
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Post by another specialist on Nov 17, 2006 13:32:36 GMT
yes but as the image states the comparasion used of the modern individuals is larger than most so a standard sized individual skull would be much smaller. so a bigger difference would be noticed.
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Post by another specialist on Feb 10, 2007 8:51:02 GMT
The giant fossa was a low-slung puma-like carnivore that, judging from the size of its jaws, was a formidable predator. It is thought to have survived until historical times, and probably preyed on some of the large lemur species that are also now extinct. Étienne de Flacourt, French governor of Madagascar during the mid-seventeenth century, described an animal called the ‘antamba’ which might represent a living giant fossa in his ‘L’Histoire de le Grande Île de Madagascar’(1658). Evolutionary Distinctiveness Order: Carnivora Family: Eupleridae Recent molecular studies indicate that all Malagasy carnivores evolved from a single ancestor that is thought to have colonised Madagascar from mainland Africa 18-24 million years ago. The closest living relatives of the Malagasy carnivores are the African mongooses (Herpestidae). The two fossa species, the falanouc (Eupleres goudotii) and the Malagasy civet (Fossa fossana) are thought to be the most ancient representatives of the Malagasy carnivore group, with Madagascar’s more mongoose-like carnivores (Galidia, Galidictis and Mungotictis) representing a more recent evolutionary radiation. Cryptoprocta spelea has been widely regarded in the past as a synonym of the living fossa C. ferox. However, recent re-analysis of subfossil and modern fossa material indicates that it was a distinct species. Description, Ecology and Habitat Very little is known about the extinct fossa. It is thought to have been similar in appearance to the modern fossa, a low-slung puma-like carnivore, but markedly large in size, reaching at least 17 kg. Given its size, its massive jaws and large carnassial teeth, it must have been a formidable predator, and certainly capable of taking larger prey than the living fossa (which is known to physically take prey over 6 kg). The remains of both fossa species have been found together at several palaeontological sites, but it is impossible to verify whether they co-occurred at the same time. Factors leading to extinction Not known. The giant fossa possibly became extinct as a result of the disappearance of the large lemurs upon which it preyed, although early human settlers introduced other large mammals such as the bush pig (Potamochoerus larvatus), which could have represented alternative food sources for the species. It is more likely that extensive destruction of forested habitats over the past two thousand years constituted the most significant extinction driver. A recent study of the giant fossa by Goodman et al. (2004) noted that there are stories of extremely large fossas still occurring in certain parts of Madagascar. For example, a two-metre long fossa weighing 30 kg was allegedly caught in the 1950s by local forestry workers. Although this suggests the slim possibility that the giant fossa may still survive, no living individuals of this species have ever been reported by scientists working in the region. Local people across many parts of Madagascar also describe two forms of living Cryptoprocta, the large fosa mainty or “black fossa”, and the small fosa mena or “reddish fossa”, and there are also reports from the southwest of a whitish fossa. It is unclear if these different forms represent variation within C. ferox (e.g. sexual dimorphism, age-related differences), or the presence of more than one species of fossa on the island. www.edgeofexistence.org/extinctions/extinct_fossa.asp
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Post by sordes on Feb 23, 2007 20:19:19 GMT
I calculated the weight of Cryptocropta spelea by using the size differece between the shown skulls. I came up with a weight of roughly 30kg, given the fact that larger male fossas reach weights of 15kg or more.
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Post by sordes on Feb 23, 2007 20:28:42 GMT
The C. spelea skull is about 23% longer than those of C. ferox, so the living animal was probably about 1,7m in complete length.
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Post by another specialist on Feb 23, 2007 23:41:48 GMT
Thanks sordes for the calculations - very interesting
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Post by Melanie on Aug 8, 2007 6:15:57 GMT
Cryptoprocta spelea, also know as the Giant Fossa, is an extinct species of fossa from Madagascar. According to current subfossil evidence it averaged 17kg. Like its smaller relative, it would have been cat-like in behavior and would have been able to hunt the giant, ape-sized lemurs that also went extinct in Madagascar. It is unknown why the Giant Fossa went extinct so recently. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptoprocta_spelea
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Post by another specialist on Aug 8, 2007 13:20:00 GMT
The giant fossa was a low-slung puma-like carnivore that, judging from the size of its jaws, was a formidable predator. It is thought to have survived until historical times, and probably preyed on some of the large lemur species that are also now extinct. Étienne de Flacourt, French governor of Madagascar during the mid-seventeenth century, described an animal called the ‘antamba’ which might represent a living giant fossa in his ‘L’Histoire de le Grande Île de Madagascar’(1658). The exact reason for the extinction of the giant fossa is not known, although it may have been linked to the disappearance of its giant lemur prey. Endemic to Madagascar. Subfossil remains have been found across much of the island. Evolutionary Distinctiveness Order: Carnivora Family: Eupleridae Recent molecular studies indicate that all Malagasy carnivores evolved from a single ancestor that is thought to have colonised Madagascar from mainland Africa 18-24 million years ago. The closest living relatives of the Malagasy carnivores are the African mongooses (Herpestidae). The two fossa species, the falanouc (Eupleres goudotii) and the Malagasy civet (Fossa fossana) are thought to be the most ancient representatives of the Malagasy carnivore group, with Madagascar’s more mongoose-like carnivores (Galidia, Galidictis and Mungotictis) representing a more recent evolutionary radiation. Cryptoprocta spelea has been widely regarded in the past as a synonym of the living fossa C. ferox. However, recent re-analysis of subfossil and modern fossa material indicates that it was a distinct species. Description, Ecology and Habitat Very little is known about the extinct fossa. It is thought to have been similar in appearance to the modern fossa, a low-slung puma-like carnivore, but markedly large in size, reaching at least 17 kg. Given its size, its massive jaws and large carnassial teeth, it must have been a formidable predator, and certainly capable of taking larger prey than the living fossa (which is known to physically take prey over 6 kg). The remains of both fossa species have been found together at several palaeontological sites, but it is impossible to verify whether they co-occurred at the same time. Factors leading to extinction Not known. The giant fossa possibly became extinct as a result of the disappearance of the large lemurs upon which it preyed, although early human settlers introduced other large mammals such as the bush pig (Potamochoerus larvatus), which could have represented alternative food sources for the species. It is more likely that extensive destruction of forested habitats over the past two thousand years constituted the most significant extinction driver. A recent study of the giant fossa by Goodman et al. (2004) noted that there are stories of extremely large fossas still occurring in certain parts of Madagascar. For example, a two-metre long fossa weighing 30 kg was allegedly caught in the 1950s by local forestry workers. Although this suggests the slim possibility that the giant fossa may still survive, no living individuals of this species have ever been reported by scientists working in the region. Local people across many parts of Madagascar also describe two forms of living Cryptoprocta, the large fosa mainty or “black fossa”, and the small fosa mena or “reddish fossa”, and there are also reports from the southwest of a whitish fossa. It is unclear if these different forms represent variation within C. ferox (e.g. sexual dimorphism, age-related differences), or the presence of more than one species of fossa on the island. References Goodman, S. M., Rasoloarison, R. M. and Ganzhorn, J. U. 2004. On the specific identification of a subfossil Cryptoprocta (Mammalia, Carnivora) from Madagascar. Zoosystema 26 (1): 129-143. Yoder, A. D., Burns, M. M., Zehr, S., Delefosse, T., Veron, G., Goodman, S. M. and Flynn, J. J. 2003. Single origin of Malagasy Carnivora from an African ancestor. Nature 421: 734-737. www.edgeofexistence.org/extinctions/extinct_fossa.asp
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Post by sordes on Aug 9, 2007 11:40:50 GMT
The 17kg as average seems highly dubious. The C. ferox-skull which is shown in comparison with those of C. spelea is already those of a very large specimen, and still those of C. spelea is 23% longer.
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Post by another specialist on Aug 9, 2007 17:01:50 GMT
Sordes its just another example of how may estimates are flying around the web about sizes and weights that vary a bit like Pelorovis antiquus thread.
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