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Post by another specialist on Feb 21, 2006 21:19:51 GMT
Thanks Carlos for the info gratefully received.
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Post by RSN on Feb 25, 2006 19:06:00 GMT
Out the neck size, the stripes e etc are correct?
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Post by Carlos on Feb 25, 2006 19:50:16 GMT
I think it most likely had one (or perhaps more) shoulder stripe instead of a series of neck stripes. Grey color and markings much like Equus africanus.
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Post by another specialist on Feb 28, 2006 9:42:50 GMT
Out the neck size, the stripes e etc are correct? Yes, i think the neck is too long a bit out of proportion with the rest the boby and head. Yes, may be less stripes as Carlos mentioned aswell as colour grey of some form as most wild ass are.
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Post by RSN on Mar 4, 2006 18:50:57 GMT
Ok, thanks for the help.
Obs.: it´s not colored with color pencils, only with writting pencil.
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Post by another specialist on Mar 5, 2006 9:47:06 GMT
My pleasure RSN anytime
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Post by RSN on Jun 10, 2007 0:51:24 GMT
I found a pic: Copyright Ko Sturkop - Apeldoorn - NLhome.hccnet.nl/j.sturkop/Paard_Ezel.htmlDid it fits well with the descriptions, as I can use this as reference for my own drawing? What about the neck? It don't looks like the supposed cave painting of E. hydruntinus...
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Post by RSN on Jun 10, 2007 0:57:20 GMT
From a Italian site: Un ambiente favorevole all’insediamento Una fitta vegetazione arborea, propria di un clima temperato e piovoso, copriva sia le montagne che la pianura; questa, resa piú ampia da una linea di costa piú bassa dell’attuale di oltre 50 metri, era anche occupata da vaste aree umide di diversa natura per la presenza di sorgenti, acque ristagnanti, corsi d’acqua, zone palustri e lacustri. Gli abitatori delle grotte si sostenevano con le attività di caccia e raccolta, utilizzando le abbondanti risorse animali e vegetali disponibili nelle foreste, nelle radure liberate con il fuoco, nelle paludi o lungo i fiumi e la costa marina da cui erano tratti in abbondanza i molluschi. Gli animali cacciati erano, tra la grande fauna, principalmente il bue selvatico (Bos primigenius), il cavallo selvatico (Equus hydruntinus), unici superstiti delle precedenti fasi medio-pleistoceniche, il cervo (Cervus elaphus), il cinghiale, la volpe. www.ildelfino.org/officina/paleolitico.htm
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Post by another specialist on Jun 10, 2007 6:54:25 GMT
I Did it fits well with the descriptions, as I can use this as reference for my own drawing? What about the neck? It don't looks like the supposed cave painting of E. hydruntinus... Great image RSN that you found. Well, we have to remember that cave drawings are early art forms and not that accurate for a start but give us a basic outline that resembles an animal. So this drawing does resemble more an ass in form and the artist must of based on some more accurate information like fossil finds possibly. May be worth contacting the artist to get more info?
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Post by RSN on Jun 10, 2007 19:58:16 GMT
Maybe, I'll try when I start to work in equids again.
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Post by another specialist on Jun 11, 2007 6:23:47 GMT
looking forward to any new works / images you create.
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Post by cryptodude100 on Jun 19, 2007 0:39:47 GMT
What is the size of the European Ass?
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Post by another specialist on Jun 19, 2007 8:05:08 GMT
What is the size of the European Ass? Generally it would of been similiar to the African and Asian Ass species and subspecies.
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Post by Carlos on Aug 12, 2007 20:00:02 GMT
LUDOVIC ORLANDO, MARJAN MASHKOUR, ARIANE BURKE, CHRISTOPHE J. DOUADY, VÉRA EISENMANN, CATHERINE HÄNNI (2006) Geographic distribution of an extinct equid (Equus hydruntinus: Mammalia, Equidae) revealed by morphological and genetical analyses of fossils Molecular Ecology 15 (8), 2083–2093. Equus hydruntinus inhabited Europe and the Middle East for more than 300 000 years. For a long time, palaeontological data failed to place E. hydruntinus into the equid phylogenetic tree, confronted with the fact that it shares primitive Equus characters with both zebras and asses, and derived characters with asses and hemiones. However, the study of a recently discovered skull points to a relationship with hemiones. Extraction of DNA from ancient samples from Crimea (E. hydruntinus) and Iran (E. cf. hydruntinus) yielded 134–288 bp of the mtDNA control region and 143 bp of the cytochrome b gene. This DNA analysis supports the proximity of E. hydruntinus and Equus hemionus suggested by skull and limb bone analyses, and rejects proximity to either Equus burchelli or the asses suggested by tooth morphology. Dental morphology may thus be of poor taxonomical value if used alone for establishing equid phylogenetic relationships. Furthermore, the small genetic distance between E. cf. hydruntinus of Iran and the classical E. hydruntinus of Crimea suggests that both samples belong to the same species. Accordingly, the geographic range of E. hydruntinus— until now believed to be restricted to Europe, Israel, and Turkey — can be extended towards East as far as Iran. www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-294X.2006.02922.x?cookieSet=1&journalCode=mec
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Post by another specialist on Aug 12, 2007 22:01:53 GMT
Late Pleistocene and Holocene equid remains from Israel www.ipa.min-cultura.pt/cipa/zoo/pubs/articles/1980-ZoolJ-Linn-Soc-Equids.pdfEquid remains-mostly isolated teeth-from archaeological sites in Israel are described. Particular attention is paid to dental enamel fold morphology and criteria are established for separating several Old world Q.uaternary equid species. Equus hydruntinus, which is here considered a zebra rather than an ass, was present unti112,000 bp in northern Israel, while at the same time E. asinus/hemionus inhabited the arid regions in the south. Infrequent remains of E. caballus are also described. By 4000 years ago ass, probably the domestic form, was present in northern Israel. The two species domesticated by man are the ass and the horse. It is generally agreed that Asiatic half-asses were not domesticated because they are too stubborn and dangerous to handle today (Epstein, 1971). Neither the zebras of Africa, nor the small prehistoric 'Eurapean' species E. hydruntinus were ever domesticated. Altogether five species of equids have been described fram the Late pleistocene- Holocene sequence in Israel. Thus Bate (1937) identified E. caballus, E. hemionus and E. hydruntinus in Late Pleistocene levels in the Mount Carmel caves. Ducos (1968) identified E. asinus in the Early Branze Age of the south central plain and Bouchud (1974) mentions the presence of an extinct zebra, E. mauritanicus, fram the Lower Mousterian of -Djebel Qafzeh. Were all these species really present in the Levant, and if so, where? E. hydruntinus The two most distinctive features of this species are the deep penetration of the external fold in the lower molars, and the triangular or 'shoe' -shaped pratocone in the upper teeth. Both are characteristic of the zebras. Teeth showing these features are present in the Acheulean of Oum Qatafa and Mousterian of Kebara, Tabun, Djebel Qafzeh and Kebaran of Ein Gev 1 and III. Figure 11 shows that the hydruntine teeth from Tabun C (Lower Mousterian of Bate, 1937) and levels J and L and XVI-XVII of Djebel Qafzeh, which are considered earlier than Tabun C by Haas (inJelinek et al., 1973), are larger than those fram the Upper Mousterian of Kebara cave. I suggest that this equid underwent a size decrease during the Mousterian ofIsrael. A temporal size change such as this offers an alternative identification for a Lower Mousterian hydruntine tooth from Tabun C, referred to as E. hemionus due to its larger size by Bate (1937: figo , see below). Moreover, the larger zebra-like equid fram the Lower Mousterian of Djebel Qafzeh, which Bouchud (1974) calls E. mauritanicus, could also be referred to as a large ancestral form of E. hydruntinus. In other words, there is a possibility that E. mauritanicus and E. hydruntinus belong to the same species which underwent a size decrease during the Mousterian. Alternatively, all the Lower Mousterian material may be E. mauritanicus, a separate species about which little is known. Figure 12 shows the metapodia of this small equid from Kebara cave. These are similar to E. hydruntinus fram the Upper Palaeolithic levels of the Gratta Romanelli in southern Italy figures by Stehlin & Graziosi (1935). E. hydruntinus has not been found on any site in Israel which postdates 12,000 bp. By the Bronze Age, another small equid is found in northern Israel: E. asinuslhemionus (probably E. asinus) at Kerem ben Zimra and Tel Gat (Ducos, 1968). This was probably an introduced domestic ass (see Fig. 1).
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Post by Carlos on Jan 2, 2008 19:38:26 GMT
In the classic book, written by the Castilian king Alfonso XI in the XIV century (dated in 1430) called "El libro de la monteria" (The Big Game Book) it is estated that " ... se describen las aptitudes para la caza de diversos terrenos de los montes reales murcianos, y por él conocemos la existencia de jabalíes, osos, venados y encebras" (in the book the game of several royal hunting estates in the region of Murcia [SE Spain] is described, and because of that we know of the existence there by that time of wild boars, bears, red deer and encebras). www.carm.es/siga/REVISTA/febrero05/html_rtf/html/monteria.htm(in Spanish)
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Post by another specialist on Jan 28, 2008 17:36:26 GMT
Equus hydruntinus REGALIAThe presence of the small Middle to Late Pleistocenestenonid, Equus hydruntinus, was previously establishedin the Risovaa Cave, near Arandjelovac in Central Ser-bia (RAKOVEC, 1965; FORSTEN& DIMITRIJEVI], 1995).The coexistence of this species with a much larger, ca-balloid horse also characterizes the caves Baranica, Jeri-nina, and Ravanika. A further similarity lies in the lownumber of hydruntinus remains found in relation to thoseof caballoid horse remains found, as is the case withmost European finds of hydruntinus. In the RavanikaCave, there were two hydruntinus teeth compared withonly five caballoid specimens, but the sample in its enti-rety is too small to be conclusive regarding their origi-nal frequency. Whenever caballoid horse remains are found in large numbers in a cave, hydruntinus is gener-ally also present, Crvena Stijena being an exception.Material: Baranica Cave (Fig. 13a–l): L PM2 (BARII 97/1/10); L and R PM3–4 (BAR II 97/3/3 and 97/8/3),two L and four R M 1–2 (BAR 97/25/1, BAR II 97,BAR II 97/12/3, 1/10, 97/7/7, and 97/16/5); R pm 3–4(BAR II 97/9/12); L distal tibia (BAR II 97/8/65), andR astragalus (BAR II 97/11/7); pm2 (BAR II 97/8/13)may also belong to hydruntinus. Ravanika Cave (Fig.13n–o): R M3 (ZP 2/1) and R PM 3–4 (No. 378), andGradac (Jerinina Cave) (Fig. 13m) R M1–2 (No. 61).All over its range in Europe, the Middle East, andthe Caucasus, Equus hydruntinus is identifiable by itsdental morphology, although a single tooth may resem-ble small/much worn specimens of the caballoid horse.The protocones, although short, may have an anteriorextension, a “heel”, particularly in the molars. The pro-toconal length, i.e. the development of the heel, is vari-able within samples. A separate “subspecies”, E. hy-druntinus davidi Alimen was established, believed todiffer in having relatively long protocones (ALIMEN,1946), but significant differences in the protoconallength between local samples have not been demonstrat-ed. The lower cheek teeth are typically stenonid withV–shaped lingual grooves, protostylid plications indicat-ed, and mostly deep molar ectoflexids. Occasionally, themolar ectoflexids may be shallow, resembling those ofthe Asiatic Wild Ass, E. hemionus PALLAS. Generallysmall, the limb bones vary locally in size, but the slen-der metapodials and proximal phalanges are characteris-tic, an additional resemblance with E. hemionus.The few hydruntinus teeth listed above do not differfrom the teeth described from elsewhere of the species’range, either in their size or morphology (Fig. 13). Themean protoconal lengths are: PM3–4 7.98 mm, M1–29.25 mm; there may be a short heel. The plicationcounts vary between 6–11 plications; the plis caballinwere obliterated early by wear.The astragalus from Baranica (BAR II 97/11/7) com-pares closely with that from the Rissian of La AdamCave, Rumania, (SAMSON, 1975: table 14).The Equus hydruntinus is believed to have preferreddry and temperate climatic conditions, but the specieshas been found in France under glacial conditions also(PRAT, 1968). In the Bacho Kiro Cave, Bulgaria, hy-druntinus occurs from layer 7 to and including layer13, dated from 29 150 +/– 950 BP to >47 000 BP(MOOK, 1982; GINTER& KOZLOWSKI, 1982), and underclimate conditions varying from cool-dry or cold-humidto warm-dry and warm-humid (KOWALSKI, 1982). Themaximum frequency of hydruntinus is in layer 11, dat-ed > 40 000 BP (MOOK, 1982), when the climate wasbecoming warmer and increasingly humid, precedingthe maximum cold of layer 12 (KOWALSKI, 1982; GIN-TER& KOZLOWSKI, 1982). It is not known from whichlayers of the Risovaa, Baranica, Ravanika, and Jeri-nina caves hydruntinus derives, neither the age nor the climatic conditions are known. www.doiserbia.nbs.bg.ac.yu/(A(4HOwZxaByAEkAAAAOWI4ZmZkMjItYmQ2ZS00NjE2LThiYzItZDBiZTkxZjRiOWI2u_QHfR6x9qJFfLUD7RKXu52Kgmg1))/img/doi/0350-0608/2003/0350-06080301055F.pdf
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Post by another specialist on Jan 28, 2008 17:38:40 GMT
Pleistocene/Holocene discontinuity in the horse record In the Central Balkans, as well as elsewhere in Europe, the records indicate that the caballoid horses disappeared at the end of the Pleistocene. There are no finds of caballoid horse from the Early Holocene faunas of Serbia, although due to extensive archaeological excavations these faunas are much better known than those from the Late Pleistocene. The Equus hydruntinus survived and locally in the Neolithic even formed an important part of the fauna and of man’s subsistence (BÖKÖNYI, 1984). The further history shows, once again, the caballoid/ stenonid turnover. The latest representative of the stenonid horses, E. hydruntinus, became extinct in the Middle Neolithic (BÖKÖNYI, 1974) or as late as in the Copper Age in Spain (BOESSNECK, 1967), while the caballoid horse reappeared in the Eneolithic, this time as domesticated animals. www.doiserbia.nbs.bg.ac.yu/(A(4HOwZxaByAEkAAAAOWI4ZmZkMjItYmQ2ZS00NjE2LThiYzItZDBiZTkxZjRiOWI2u_QHfR6x9qJFfLUD 7RKXu52Kgmg1))/img/doi/0350-0608/2003/0350-06080301055F.pdf
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maddy
Junior Member
Posts: 18
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Post by maddy on May 12, 2008 18:40:39 GMT
From the discription of the Zebro forces me to include that it had to be the sorraia horse. .Grey color .Dorsal Stripe on back . Bars on legs .Mare like and whining .Cross over the shoulders Also the fact that european wild ass died out 8000 years ago convince me that it most be a sorraia. www.horseshowcentral.com/flex/sorraia/327/1It almost a prefect discription of the sorraia horse. If was not the sorraia the only other animal that could fit the discription would have to be the African Wild Ass.
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Post by another specialist on Aug 11, 2008 19:39:10 GMT
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