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Post by Melly on Feb 15, 2005 13:08:29 GMT
I've heard that both cougar and the Asian / African Cheetah were descendants of the North American Cheetah. Is that true?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2005 17:36:02 GMT
Hi ! Do You mean that the american cheetah is the ancestor of the both ? The cougar and the cheetah have nothing to do whith eachother. The cougar is the biggest of the small cats (Kleinkatzen in german) and the cheetah is the smallest of the big cats (Großkatzen in german), I do not know the exact english version of those names. But I think You know what I mean. Bye Alex
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Post by Melly on Feb 15, 2005 18:10:46 GMT
Ted Oakes has written in his book "Men against beast" that cheetahs (Miracinonyx trumani) had its origin in Northern America. They came via the Bering bridge to Asia and Africa two million years ago. There is also a close genomic relationship between cougars and cheetah because of its small head and the long tail.
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Magoo
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Post by Magoo on Feb 27, 2005 21:56:19 GMT
cheetahs are related to pumas "The puma fossil record is less than one million years old but both molecular and morphologic studies suggest that the puma's origin dates back to the late Miocene Epoch (5-8 million years ago) when they evolved from a common ancestor with the cheetah and jaguarundi." www.csew.com/felidtag/pages/Educational/FactSheets/puma.htm here's the source en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_cat shows some classification of the term big cat
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Post by sebbe67 on Mar 25, 2005 11:45:07 GMT
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Post by sebbe67 on Mar 25, 2005 11:49:15 GMT
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Post by aspenparkland on Mar 25, 2005 17:51:09 GMT
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Post by Melly on Mar 25, 2005 19:05:42 GMT
Sorry, but the Yahoo link is not working.
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Post by aspenparkland on Mar 25, 2005 19:16:04 GMT
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Post by Bowhead Whale on Nov 16, 2005 19:47:35 GMT
Huh... Noisi. the cheetah and the cougar DO have something to do with each other. Did you know that the cheetah's closest living relative IS the cougar? If you don't believe me, please visit the Discovery Channel Animal Face-Off page, and do the Cougar- Wolf Quiz. You may jump up from your chair.
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Post by Peter on Nov 16, 2005 21:17:46 GMT
True, based on biochemical data, the closest relative of the cheetah is the puma. An extinct species of the cheetah A. trunzani, was found in the fossil record in the United States, which may explain this relationship (O'Brien et al. 1986).
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Post by sordes on Nov 17, 2005 18:47:28 GMT
@noisi: In fact the cheetah is no big cat, it lacks the anatomical features of this family and is in fact no big cat like the tiger or lion, whereas the clouded leopard could be more a big cat than a relative of the smaller cats. Untill a short time it was assumed that the ancestor of the cheetah was the american cheetah, whose ancestor was cougar-like animal, but a some months ago, I read something about new disvoveries, that the african/asian cheetha was not closesly related to the american cheetah an more an example of convergent evolution.
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Magoo
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Post by Magoo on Nov 17, 2005 19:20:25 GMT
Ya I read that too, American cheetah was from the cougar and had evolved in tandem with pronghorns.Cheetahs are classified as small cats because they purr and are unable to roar, while all big cats can roar.
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Post by Bucardo on Nov 24, 2005 21:49:04 GMT
Recent studies repeled the hypothesis of closely relationship between pumas and cheetahs. The North American cheetahs (genus Miracinonyx) were, actually, a puma adapted (in convergence to "true" cheetahs) to speedy run, probably especialized in the proghorn hunting. The genus Acinonyx, that appears in the fossil record during the Pliocene, probably evolved in Africa or South Asia, not America. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiracinonyxM. trumani seems the perfect example of convergent evolution. As grasslands became more common in both Africa and America, the separate cat species from both continents evolved to catch the new fleet footed herbivores. Their claws had even become only partially retractable, to be used for better grip at high speeds, just as true cheetahs have fully un-retractable claws.
M. inexpectatus was more similar to the puma, their proportions between that of modern pumas and trumani. They had fully retractable claws, and though with their slim build, they were likely faster than a puma, they are also thought to be better adept at climbing than trumani.
Though both species are similar to true cheetahs (those of the genus Acinonyx) in the fact that their faces were shortened and nasal cavities expanded for increased oxygen capacity, and they have legs proportioned for swift running, it appears these similarities are convergent rather than inherited from a common ancestor. Recent studies comparing the DNA of Miracinonyx, true cheetahs and pumas. It was concluded that Miracinonyx was not closely related to the African cheetah, but instead was a close cousin to pumas. Apparently, the puma and trumani split off from a 'puma-like ancestor' around three million years ago. Where inexpectatus fits in is unclear, but they likely are a more primitive version of trumani.
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Post by Miracinonyx on Dec 13, 2005 15:31:50 GMT
@north American cheetahs (genus Miracinonyx) were, actually, a puma adapted (in convergence to "true" cheetahs) to speedy run,@
A VERY dubious statement. PUMA is PUMA and American cheetah of the Miracinonyx genus is AMERICAN CHEETAH. It can be and most probably indeed was related to pumas but it was NOT a puma itself - wether "adapted for runnning" or not! THe animals shared the same ansestry and puma, being less-derived and more "stereotyped" cat species, obviously retained more ansestors' traits than Miracinonyx, but they ARE NOT the same. Also, puma is not and nver was an ansestral species to Miracinonyx. Am.Cheetah CAN NOT be called puma and vice-versa.
Also, what a strange twist of speculation:
@it appears these similarities are convergent rather than inherited from a common ancestor. Recent studies comparing the DNA of Miracinonyx, true cheetahs and pumas. It was concluded that Miracinonyx was not closely related to the African cheetah, but instead was a close cousin to pumas@
- Miracinonyx NATURALLY being a closer relative of another AMERICAN species does NOT mean that there is no leanage-centered group at all ! There is definately a leneage of jaguarundi-puma-miracinonyx-Acinonyx cats and no close relations between the Acinonyx and Miracinonyx genuses does not mean that they are not related at all! Generalized ansestors of Acinonyx split-off the American puma-like populations earlier than the stage of formation of the pure Acinonyx itself and migrated into the Old World. Cheetah itself most probably evolved in Eurasia - while the generalized puma stem later split into two lines: one retaining primitive puma traits and another leading to more and more specialization in running with parallel to their Old World relatives evolution of cheetah-like features. But the three are indeed related - otherwise there would never be such stricking similarities - including dental and cranium particularities. To have similarities like these the cats need to be related species with identical ansestral preadaptations - that's the only basis to develop in such a similar mode.
The cheetah-like type of a cat is too specialized and over-derived from the general cat stem to be able to evolve entirely independantly - cheetah-like lines on both continents had to have united ansestral group.
By the way - I disagree with the artist's reconstruction of Miracinonyx to be spotted like an Asian cheetah. - The american part of the jaguarundy-puma-cheetah leanage all have unicolor fur with not a single spot. Most probably, the Miracinonyx cats were not spotted either.
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Post by surroundx on Jan 7, 2017 6:59:13 GMT
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Post by surroundx on Jan 7, 2017 7:35:57 GMT
Martin, L. D., Gilbert, B. M. and Adams, D. B. (1977). A Cheetah-Like Cat in the North American Pleistocene. Science 195: 981-982. [ Abstract]
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Post by surroundx on Jan 7, 2017 7:39:23 GMT
Martin, L. D. and Gilbert, B. M. (1978). Excavations at Natural Trap Cave. Transactions of the Nebraska Academy of Sciences and Affiliated Societies 6: 106-116.
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Post by Melanie on Feb 24, 2023 16:03:15 GMT
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