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Post by another specialist on Jan 23, 2007 23:46:16 GMT
Thanks for the link above.
I'll have a read of it when i've finished downloading it.
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Post by Carlos on Feb 3, 2007 16:04:08 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Feb 3, 2007 19:00:07 GMT
Thanks for the link above. I'll have a read of it when i've finished downloading it. Thanks Peter & Carlos for both pdf files both very interesting. |
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Post by sordes on May 12, 2007 10:43:40 GMT
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Post by another specialist on May 12, 2007 15:26:06 GMT
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Post by Peter on Jun 23, 2007 11:38:04 GMT
I received the following e-mail:
I remain skeptical. I've replied and asked for more information on the genetic test and its results and the lion's ancestral past. I hope to hear more soon.
Peter
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Post by another specialist on Jun 23, 2007 15:40:18 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Jul 18, 2007 6:52:30 GMT
African lion relict population extinctanimals.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=carnivora&action=display&thread=1115308914This thread has now been deleted and all info has been copied and pasted here. 1) I read on IUCN Cat Specialist Group site of a relict african lion population in the Tassili mountains (South Algeria) still existing in the '60. Have you any information about? I don't have much information on this yet. About the population of the Barbary lion (Panthera leo leo) in Algeria: I don't have further information on this. Maybe you can contact the Cat Specialist Group? Probably the Barbary's Lyon does'nt exist on the wild. There are a lot of lions living in a zoo that belongs to the King of Morocco and some scientist had tried to reintroduce this lion on the wild. The former popularity of the Barbary Lion (Panthera leo leo) as a zoo animal provides the only hope to ever see it again in the wild in North Africa. After years of research into the science of the Barbary Lion and stories of surviving examples, WildLink International, in collaboration with Oxford University, launched their ambitious International Barbary Lion Project. They are using the very latest DNA techniques to identify the DNA 'fingerprint' of the Barbary Lion subspecies. WildLink International has taken bone samples from remains of Barbary Lions in Museums across Europe, like those in Brussels, Paris, Turin and others. These samples are returned to Oxford University where the science team is extracting the DNA sequence that identifies the Barbary as a separate subspecies. Although the Barbary is officially extinct, WildLink International had identified a handful of lions in captivity around the world that are descended from the original Barbary Lion, like the royal lions in Temara Zoo in Rabat, Morocco. These descendants will be tested against the DNA fingerprint and the degree of any hybridisation (from crossbreeding) can then be determined. The best candidates will then enter a selective breeding programme that will 'breed back' the Barbary Lion. The final phase of the project will see the lions released into a National Park in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco. After years of silence, it seems that the International Barbary Lion Project has seized to exist. WildLink International can not be reached anymore and their website is nowadays also offline. WildLink International and the Oxford University had made the deal that WildLink International would raise money for the project and that the university would do the research. Probably they still want to do the research, but this kind of research will take years to complete and of course a lot of money. With the disappearance of WildLink International they don't have the money to continue with the project. |
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Post by another specialist on Jul 18, 2007 7:09:54 GMT
barbary and cape lion size extinctanimals.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=carnivora&action=display&thread=1182442008This thread has now been deleted and all info has been copied and pasted here. I study many book, articles and sites about a size this lions subspecies. I think, that both are huge size and are bigger than others, extant living lions. I think, that notes given by Gerard to the barbary lions- 275-300 kg could be right, Of course, 17 feet long lions are huge mistake, but the weight could be a truly. I have seen a mounted barbary lion, which was truly enormous (pic in the gallery), but I know also stuffed cape lions which were not unusually large. The "typical" traits like size, colour and mane of cape and barbary lions were in fact much lesser typical than often said, and they showed also a very wide variety and also untypical specimens. According to Yamaguchi and Haddane (2002) the Barbary Lion is the largest of the lion subspecies with males weighing between 230 to 270 kg and females 140 to 160 kg. Although, due to a small sample size available for study, we have to wait until more specimens may become available to be sure about this lion's size. |
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Post by javantiger on Aug 19, 2007 17:45:04 GMT
I found in my museum (Poland) a skull of lion, big lion that morphology is very similar to the extinct barbary lion. Yet I research this skull and I'm must be an 100% sure, that is a barbary lion's skull. All morphologically details are corect and the name: old german name is the same as the name give this lion by Linnaeus and then by Brehm in book "Tierleben"- Felis leo Linnaeus.
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Post by javantiger on Aug 19, 2007 17:55:49 GMT
I found this page on youtube, but this adress is published by a Wessie68 in AVA. Could be this lion be a barbary lion.
Barbary lion-possibly. Giant mane around the neck and forearms and in the belly, short legs and long body. This male is relatively dark. But others possibility is that is a type of lion, who names is "menagerie lion" and is product a long live in captivity. Most ancestors this lion are cape and barbary lions, the most impressive, wild living lions with huge mane.
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Post by Peter on Aug 26, 2007 10:37:41 GMT
For the Poland museum: which one is it? Could be or not, hard to tell this way.
For the YouTube video. The manes are indeed impressive. I guess very similar to the manes of the Barbary Lion. It is now known that the colour and size of a lion’s mane are influenced by various extrinsic factors, therefor not suited for identifying Barbary Lions, or hybrid descendants. In my opinion genetic testing is the only proof that an determine that. Like genetic testing has confirmed that a lion specimen from Neuwied Zoo is according to its mitochondrial lineage not of sub-Saharan origin and, thus, very likely a descendant of a Barbary lion. And that five tested samples of the lions from the famous collection of the King of Morocco are not maternally Barbary. Does anyone know in which zoo the video was made? The text looks Korean.
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Post by another specialist on Aug 26, 2007 15:04:28 GMT
The Barbary Lion, Atlas lion or Nubian lion Panthera leo leo is a subspecies of lion that has become extinct in the wild. It was believed to be extinct in captivity as well. However, possible Barbary lion individuals or descendants have been located in zoos and circus populations within the last three decades. It is often considered to be the largest of the lion subspecies with males weighing between 400-650 lbs (181 to 295 kg) and females 270-400 lbs (120 to 181 kg), approximately the size of Bengal tigers and Siberian tigers. However, more recent research suggests that it is only slightly larger than most modern African lions, which weigh approximately 420 lbs on average. The Barbary Lion, also called the Atlas lion or Nubian lion, formerly ranged in North Africa (from Morocco to Libya) and continuing to Egypt. The last known Barbary Lion in the wild was shot in the Atlas Mountains in 1922. The two other primary predators of northern Africa, the Atlas bear and Barbary leopard are now extinct or close to be, respectively. Barbary lions in captivity and possible surviving individuals In the 19th century and the early 20th century Barbary Lions were often kept in zoos and circus menageries. One famous purebred Barbary lion named "Sultan" lived in the London Zoo in 1896[1]. Another one is known from Leipzig. Currently there are several dozen individuals in captivity believed to be Barbary lions: Port Lympne Wild Animal Park has twelve specimens [2] descended from animals owned by the King of Morocco. In addition, eleven animals believed to be Barbary lions were found in Addis Ababa zoo, descendants of animals owned by Emperor Haile Selassie. In the past scientists believed that the distinct sub-species status of the Barbary lion was established by its seemingly fixed external morphology, particularly its heavier mane. However, it is now known that various extrinsic factors influence the colour and size of all lions' manes, such as ambient temperature.[3] As the cooler ambient temperature in European and North American zoos has been found to produce Barbary-like manes on ordinary lions, this characteristic is now considered an inappropriate marker for identifying Barbary ancestry.[4][5] In 2005, Mitochondrial DNA research revealed that a lion specimen from Neuwied Zoo is not of sub-Saharan origin according to its mitochondrial lineage and, thus, very likely a descendant of a Barbary lion.[6] Despite this, Mitochondrial DNA research published in 2006 does support the distinctness of the Barbary lions as a sub-species. The results found a unique mtDNA haplotype to be present in some of those museum specimens believed to be of Barbary descent. This may be a good molecular marker for identifying -- and excluding -- other potential Barbary lions.[7] The mtDNA results revealed that five tested samples of lions from the famous collection of the King of Morocco are not, according to this criterion, maternally Barbary.[8] The former popularity of the Barbary Lion as a zoo animal provides the only hope to ever see it again in the wild in North Africa. After years of research into the science of the Barbary Lion and stories of surviving examples, WildLink International, in collaboration with Oxford University, launched their ambitious International Barbary Lion Project. They are using the very latest DNA techniques to identify the DNA 'fingerprint' of the Barbary Lion subspecies. WildLink International has taken bone samples from remains of Barbary Lions in Museums across Europe, like those in Brussels, Paris, Turin and others. These samples are returned to Oxford University where the science team is extracting the DNA sequence that identifies the Barbary as a separate subspecies. Although the Barbary is officially extinct, WildLink International had identified a handful of lions in captivity around the world that are descended from the original Barbary Lion, like the royal lions in Temara Zoo in Rabat, Morocco. These descendants will be tested against the DNA fingerprint and the degree of any hybridisation (from crossbreeding) can then be determined. The best candidates will then enter a selective breeding programme that will 'breed back' the Barbary Lion. The final phase of the project will see the lions released into a National Park in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco. WildLink International can not be reached anymore and their website is nowadays offline. Everyone is in the dark as to what happened to WildLink International. WildLink International and the University of Oxford had made the deal that WildLink International would raise money for the project and that the university would do the research. With the disappearance of WildLink International no money was raised. Dr. Noboyuki Yamaguchi, a scientist from the University of Oxford, has used his own funding for as long as possible to further the scientific research on Barbary Lions and its genetics. The project is now indefinitely on hold until the funds can be raised.[9] [edit] "Asiatic Lion" - an Asian relative In 1968, a study on the skulls of the Barbary, extinct Cape, Asiatic, and other African lions showed that the same skull characteristics - the very narrow postorbital bar - existed in only the Barbary and the Asiatic lion skulls. This shows that there may have been a close relationship between the lions from Northernmost Africa and Asia. It is also believed that the South European lion that became extinct at the beginning in A.D. 80-100, could have represented the connecting link between the North African and Asiatic lions. It is believed that Barbary lions possess the same belly fold (hidden under all that mane) that appears in the Asian lions today. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Lion |
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Post by another specialist on Aug 26, 2007 15:09:39 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Aug 26, 2007 15:26:09 GMT
 Inventory number: 841 Panthera leo leo - Berber Lion female, adult origin: 17.08.1938, captivity via Dr. Hoffmann, Wuppertal, Germany skull www.nws-wiesbaden.de/coll044.html |
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Post by Melanie on Sept 10, 2007 21:18:29 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Sept 11, 2007 19:29:49 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Sept 11, 2007 19:33:36 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Sept 11, 2007 19:39:41 GMT
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Post by another specialist on Sept 11, 2007 19:43:37 GMT
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